NAACP President Derrick Johnson | Supporting the Next Generation

[00:00:00] Speaker A: We are a vehicle that people can use for their voice. And if young people choose another vehicle, great. Our job is to support our young people regardless. [00:00:08] Speaker B: This is the Image Unscripted podcast presented by the NAACP and hosted by me, Jemele Hill. Image Unscripted features candid conversations with its brightest black voices discussing pivotal life moments, giving them their flowers and how they are advancing the community. Today I'm joined by Derek Johnson, President and CEO of the naacp. We're talking about leadership in the now what it means to guide an 100 plus year organization through today's cultural moment. We're also digging to the NAACP's work in the entertainment industry and the Image Awards. And we'll get into why representation still matters across boardrooms, media and digital spaces and how movements evolve when the conversation shifts from the streets to the screen to the algorithm. President Johnson, I want to thank you so much for joining me for this, what will be a wonderful conversation, I'm sure especially we got two Detroiters, right? So we're going to try to make this as 313 as possible. But I want to start this conversation talking about you and your role, especially in this important and critical political and cultural moment. How has your role shifted? How's it changed? [00:01:21] Speaker A: If you think about 2020, Kobic and George Floyd, things changed a lot. While you had companies and individuals say they're going to really recognize the fact that structural racism is a problem in this nation. And they had commitments but unfortunately less than 20% of those corporations follow through with those commitments. And now we're seeing a political culture where people are embracing anti democratic behavior, anti black behavior. And as an institution, I have to recognize that I'm a part of a continuum. This organization is 117 years old. I am now preparing for the next fight to ensure that we are able to push back against the current political climate. But do it in a way in which we're not playing whack a mole. Do it in a way in which we're not chasing headlines and name calling. The real question here is we got here as a result of an election, we're not going to shift this without us really engaging in November's election. And so we have spent the last year preparing for November's election. We are in the middle of the redistricting fight in Texas, Missouri. We're planning stuff in Virginia, across the country because we recognize the power in this democracy is at the ballot box. And for black folks that represent 13% of the total population, the best value on return on investment in terms of voter behavior is the Black vote. Because 92% of us, we're going to vote just alike because we recognize our shared history and we also recognize the future that we must fight for. [00:02:54] Speaker B: As you just mentioned, leading an institution, you're leading a legacy that many generations in our families and our lives are very familiar with. But yet you have a crop of young people, a newer generation that may not be as familiar. So how does the NAACP connect and build that relationship with younger generations? [00:03:15] Speaker A: First of all, we are a container, right? We are a vehicle that people can use for their voice. And if young people choose another vehicle, great. Our job is to support our young people regardless. You know, I grew up in a time in the city of Detroit where I didn't know a lot about the naacp. Every so often I would see Arthur Johnson come on the News. In the 80s, I didn't know a lot. I got involved once I got to college. And then I began to learn more. And the more I learned, the more I could appreciate in all of those debates I will have on tougaloo college campus. Pan Africanism versus Black nationalism versus Nation, Islam versus Christianity orthodox. All of those things begin to shape and inform how I look at the world today. And so organizationally, our job is to be a container for our young people, to have a voice for their advocacy. It's not a competition that we should never have, generational competitions. We are foolish as males to try to demean black women. We are all we have. And so it has to be us. For us, across generations, across gender. [00:04:19] Speaker B: I think there is this perception, not that it's inaccurate, that the NAACP is just about policy, politics, you know, things that, you know, people associated with more political movement. But the NAACP has made a lot of headway when it came to, when it comes to entertainment. So why don't you discuss the role and why you felt like it was important that the organization get involved in film and television. [00:04:43] Speaker A: Well, art is advocacy. How we are viewed on screen is how we're treated in public policy is how we are treated in the streets. Frederick Douglass was the most photographed individual during his lifespan because he wrecked recognized that cartoon characters is how they were communicating the political mood of the country. Because majority of whites at the time were illiterate, they could not read. So they would look at the visuals of the cartoon characters in the paper. And in those characters they had black folks as shiftless and lazy and backwards and dim witted. And so what he decided to say, I will be photographed as a black intelligent man. And that's why you have so many photos of Frederick Douglass. You fast forward. The second advocacy campaign we took on was to fight against the release of the birth of a Nation. And we recognized that fin will have a devastating impact on our society. In which it did because klan membership grew after it was the relevant organizations. Another big fight we had and we were won was preventing the airing of Amos and Andy. You cannot find an Amos and Andy episode because of the naacp. How we are viewed is how we are treated. And so we recognize that everything is politics, food is. There's nothing we do in this society that's not about being political. We have to embrace it, not run from it. Run to it and be empowered by it. [00:06:03] Speaker B: So how do you determine when the organization should get involved in those kinds of issues? Dealing with entertainment and film? [00:06:11] Speaker A: It all depends. Right? It is more of art than science. There's nothing exact. I have to always recognize that it's not about me. And thinking it through is about the bench of people that I engage with. You know, the tribe that I'm a part of my brain trust. And we begin to balance out. If we take on this campaign, can we advance the ball for the overarching cause or are we advancing the ball for individual's ego? That's always a balance there as an organization. Also recognize that I stand on a platform that has historical relevance. It is globally known. And we must continue to build this platform and not be led by my ego. Egocentric leadership kills us every time. You go through history, say, well, who was the most effective person on the civil rights movement? I said, a philurando. Why? Because you can measure his impact over decades. Not an event, not an action, not a speech, but consistent building of the base. And so many people stood on the platform that he created and we don't celebrate him enough. Ella Baker's another one effective because it wasn't about her. It was about like, wait a minute. These chauvinistic men at the NAACP are not broad enough to meet the moment. Thurgood Marshall think we can win it all in the course. Roy Wilkins think we could do it in a different way. And yet we're leaving out a whole group of young people who are energetic and they're not bound to the system. So what she do, she walked away as a staff person. And then she organizes a volunteer, got young people and realized that they had some strength on on the ground in local communities. And then she deployed those young people. But the beautiful thing, what the SNCC organizer said she would do, they would have A meeting, and she would sit back and not say a word and allow them to grapple with the questions of the day and develop the strategy. We need more approaches like that that's driven by a community centric mindset and not an egocentric personality. [00:08:13] Speaker B: It seems that NAACP is not just about holding the powers that be accountable, one function of the job. But your work in entertainment is about the organization also producing its own content. And one of the most successful shows you've been able to produce is beyond the Gates, which is up for an Image Award for outstanding drama series. What is the significance of having beyond the Gates? I'm a soap opera head, so I loved it immediately. [00:08:42] Speaker A: Right. [00:08:43] Speaker B: What is the significance, though, of having a show like that become so successful in such a short period of time? [00:08:48] Speaker A: It shows how the organization is evolving. You know, when I took over eight years ago, I said, you know, I can't use 1960 tactics and strategies in 2017 or 2026. We need to begin to think bigger and bigger is how do we build as opposed to react. Oftentimes we're reacting to bad stuff when we can get in a space and create some good content. And that's why I am proud of beyond the Gate. And they are nominated. But guess who else is nominated? You. Your show have been nominated. [00:09:19] Speaker B: Whoa, okay. I did not know that. [00:09:22] Speaker A: I know you didn't know that. [00:09:23] Speaker B: This is breaking news, okay? [00:09:24] Speaker A: And it is important because for us, image mean we celebrate those individuals, the content that promote how diverse we are, how dynamic we are, how smart we are, and the voices we add to the public discourse. That's important, and I am proud of that. You know, beyond the Gates, we had about seven other projects in the pipeline. I hope get on air to continue to show we are. We are a beautiful people. I'm in the middle of a book now about Nkrumah. And Nkrumah comes from Ghana to the US and he ended up at Lincoln University. And the beautiful thing about it is how he's seen all of these African Americans from his global perspective and realize we're all the same. Different perspective. Thurgood Marshall went to Lincoln, and you had this person there, and he goes to Harlem and he runs across Garveyes. And it all informed his advocacy when he got back to Ghana. But at the exact same time, our former chair of the board, Julian Bond, his father was the president of Lincoln. And so all of those interactions, those are stories that should be told. They're beautiful stories about who we are as African people. [00:10:33] Speaker B: You've talked about Using different tactics. But it does seem like the same old problems persist. UCLA recently did a Hollywood diversity report where they showed that of all the streaming content in 2024, over 90% was still controlled and led by white men. Despite the fact that you have black audiences that strongly support these streaming platforms, what can we, as a black audience do to demand better? [00:11:00] Speaker A: I think we have to get on the side of creating content more so than consuming content. And we're beginning to see that movement. If you think about domestically, yeah, Hollywood is the thing, but if you think globally, we're third. Nollywood, India produced more content, followed by Nigeria and then the U.S. we also have to recognize how certain trends we can break through them. What Dolomite Rudy Ray Moore did in the 70s showed that, wait a minute, I can buy out a theater, produce my own content and explode. I wish he would have kept or someone kept that trajectory. Well, then you get Tyler Perry come behind him. Use the, what we call the chilling circuit of the theaters. Put that content on film, and it explodes. So he built a whole empire in Atlanta. We have to continue to move in that direction. Social media platforms give us that opportunity. It is so democratized, we don't have to go through traditional studio iterations. In fact, more people consume information off YouTube than all of the traditional platforms. I mean, traditional studios combine. So that gives us an opportunity. We just have to figure out how to monetize it and continue to grow it. [00:12:13] Speaker B: And even with those different avenues that we can follow, yet the Image Awards is still one that stands out as a place where. Where black creators, filmmakers, can still be celebrated amongst their own. How do you see the purpose of the Image Awards today? [00:12:30] Speaker A: I think we have to protect it as we grow it and invite more people to be a part of it. You know, the LA office, Robin Wynn's been here forever. I mean, she's really good. And she had a vision, said, you know what? Content creators on social media platforms is now a thing. So we created a category. I think this year we have about five categories. We're going to continue to grow that category because you have so many people in that space creating content that's not coming through traditional routes that had ceilings that we couldn't break through. We can get over on that side. Image Awards is about how we are projected, how people see us, how people consume our culture. We have to own that culture. We have to make sure we protect that culture. Sometimes we allow some of the most demeaning parts of our culture to be the predominant display of who we are when that's not the case. I grew up doing rap music where Public Enemy and Rakim was the thing. And then out of nowhere good angsta rap come in place. I'm like, this feels like the black exploitation movement of the 70s. We were growing too strong too fast. And so there was a coordinated effort to shut us down. Nacp, we gotta prevent that from happening again. And we need to be in this space wherever we're creating content in that space. Not reacting to only, but also creating. [00:13:51] Speaker B: Where do you think the Image Awards like When you think about the other award shows that we have and not just we as in black people, but just generally out there. What do you think the Image Awards, where does it stand out compared to the others? [00:14:06] Speaker A: It's a celebration by us, for us to display who we are. We've already beginning to grow it. It's not only the two hour show that you see on screen, it's the dinner where most of the awards are given. 2021 Iman the model, we was on a call, she says, you know, there's no place for fashion. We don't. No one honors black fashion world. So we created a fashion component of the show. We're looking at visual arts because we have so many artists and our art is value valuable. Right. We go down to Art Basel, we kind of looking in the window, are we going to create a space for our artists and our black art galleries to display wherever we are position. We need to be in that space as an organization, as a people in a way in which it can be sustainable over time. [00:14:56] Speaker B: Already we saw at the start of awards season Sinners which was one of the best films of 2024. We, we've seen it being recognized in a lot of places, not a lot of wins. I don't think this movie has to worry about being celebrated in this space. Why does the success of that film, what makes it go beyond just another successful movie but something that feels so culturally relevant. [00:15:21] Speaker A: So let me start with. We have to stop worrying about where small people don't recognize us. That's not my focus. How do we recognize us? And actually senators are being recognized at the box. It's making money. I don't think Ryan Coogler or Michael P. Jordan, they not upset at all. So what if small minded people can't recognize our excellence when we know they recognize our excellence. Are they going to try to make a white version of Sinners down the road? Because that's the thing they do. They try to demean what we do, how we do it and they copy it. Right. So why are we still worried about that industry? We are the leaders of culture in this country. We have set the standard. There is no American music as we know it without black music. You can make categories out of it, but it's us. It's our culture. So let's celebrate us and stop chasing something that respect us, don't like us, and we know it. Damn with them. It's about us. [00:16:19] Speaker B: Well, with that being said, what do you think is it that made sinners just as successful as it has been? [00:16:25] Speaker A: It was authentic. I'm sitting down. I hate horror movies. Right. I hate horror movies. I'm watching it. The music, the cinematography, the understanding of that culture during that time in Mississippi, the fact that you could integrate how these twins can migrate from Mississippi in a hardship, go to Chicago because that's north Mississippi, and come back with whatever riches they have, recognize the violence of the Klan, and then they integrate the Chinese community in there. That's authentic. And in Mississippi, it's nothing like running across someone who is Asian and speak as southern as your grandmother. That is the most unique thing. That's what made it successful. So many people migrated. You grew up in Detroit. [00:17:15] Speaker B: Yes, my family migrated just like yours did. [00:17:18] Speaker A: Right. Mine came from West Tennessee. Right. So Detroit, made up of Alabama and Tennessee. Chicago is primarily Mississippi. I could go on and on and on. New York or the Carolinas. [00:17:28] Speaker B: On and on. [00:17:28] Speaker A: Right. That's a part of our story. Isabella Wicker wrote it in the warmth of other suns, how we are migrant, microtary patterns. But when you see that, you can hear the stories of your grandparents. You can recognize the summers you had to go down south. You can appreciate all of the beautiful music that was embedded with gospel and blues all in the same time. That's what made it successful. We got so many more of those stories to tell. [00:17:58] Speaker B: You mentioned a moment ago about how part of your strategy now is inviting more people in, hence why you've created recognition for social media influencers and for creat. But it seems the other part of the strategy is the NAACP being involved in more things beyond just film and entertainment politics. Little birdie told me y' all might be getting into some sports. What's going on there? [00:18:23] Speaker A: Yeah. So we have to get into that conversation. Right. Because what we recognized on the last election cycle, more black men was getting their information about politics through sports talk. So we have to be where the conversation is, where our people are. And that's why we have to get into some podcasting about sports Conversations and be there. And, you know, last night game is a great example. You know, think about the quarterback for University of Mississippi, a brother who was not heavily recruited, and go to Ferris State and kill the thing and then get. And go to University of Mississippi. What a great story that is. But what's the political part of that? It's Ole Miss. It's the remnants of the Confederacy. So that's another part of that conversation. And then on the other side of the field, you have Michael Irvin with all of his craziness and genes all wrapped in one. A great example of someone who excelled on the sports but got trapped into a culture of drugs that was embedded in our community. That's a conversation as well. And now he's overcome that. We need to be talking about what's going on on the field, but all the dynam around it, because that's who we are. We are dynamic and we're diverse and we have to be a part of all the conversations. [00:19:39] Speaker B: Dare I say sports and politics. Right. [00:19:41] Speaker A: It's all the same. [00:19:42] Speaker B: They've always been. [00:19:43] Speaker A: Jackie Robinson is politics. Yes. Politics was Jackie Robinson as he played baseball. [00:19:47] Speaker B: Yeah. Muhammad Ali. It's been a long legacy of that. Always existing together. [00:19:51] Speaker A: Jack Johnson with them, white women. [00:19:55] Speaker B: Well, you know, as you just talked about and eloquently said is that. But we're now in so many different spaces. We have so many different tools in which we can do things, especially through social media. And one of those ways is organizing. How do you see the NAACP's role when it comes to using social media as a method to organize and mobilize? [00:20:19] Speaker A: I think it is the method now. Right. We have so many people consuming the information off of social media platforms than ever before, but there are no guardrails. The mis and disinformation that's on those platforms will lead us in directions that we should not be going in. And so as an organization, we have to be in there as a voice of truth. So if you see something on there and say, wait a minute, is this AI, Is this accurate? Well, NACP should be a brand that black folks can go to and say, well, no, I see no nacp. It is inaccurate, it's not correct. That's why we have to be there. But we also have to be there because the medium age of our community is 32 years old and our young people are consuming off of social media platforms. They're not on broadcast television, they're not on cable television. All the traditional stuff you and I used to read or look AT is no longer relevant to them. So we have to go to where they are. We will not grow as an organization, we will not stick together as a community if we don't go to where the majority of our people are. Right now it's the below 30 year olds is where the majority of our people are. [00:21:25] Speaker B: How do you see these digital platforms sort of shaping how we learn about our history? On one end the technology is very exciting, on the other end it's also very frightening in some respects because there are no guardrails as you said. But how do you see these digital platforms sort of shaping our perception and our history? [00:21:47] Speaker A: So how one see themselves on platforms really can embed a level of insecurity about who they are, their limitations. And so we have to get in there so people can see us at our best. Therefore they see themselves in their potential. And so we have to get in there aggressively and not for clickbait. And so for us is that balance like we are a legacy organization trying to appeal to a general of the younger generations on social media platform. Right? And in many cases it may be us supporting someone to do it, not even in our name because it's not about organizational identity, it's about community survival. And if we have to invest in things outside of NACP branded to bring people back, then that's what we're going to have to do. Because at the end of the day, the vehicles and the tools that are on the table really is what you're limited to in terms of fighting. And so we have to fight with everything we have and recognize that it's no longer the newspaper, it's no longer broadcast, it is social media platforms. [00:22:55] Speaker B: How do you see the organization aligning itself even more so with a lot of these digital creators? [00:23:01] Speaker A: We've already done it. I mean, you know, we are ongoing conversations, a few of them, some of the younger ones that are provocative. Every so often I get a call say hey, is this the right perspective? Should I consider this? I will pick up the phone. It's already happened, it's happening now since probably 2001 and it's necessary and we don't have to say I'm doing it because it's not about the ego, it's about community centric leadership to ensure that we're all prospering together. [00:23:26] Speaker B: You know, we spend a lot of time when we have these conversations talking about what's wrong, the problems and really bemoaning maybe sometimes our circumstances. But what are the things right now, especially as it pertains to young people, that's giving you hope. [00:23:41] Speaker A: They know their agency. They're willing to go sometime. It is go, ready, aim, but they're ready to do right. The value of young people is the lack of fear, and that's overcoming fear is a problem as you get older. I mean, think about the stuff you did when you were young, and you look back like, what the hell was I thinking about? But if you can put some parameters around it, some guardrails, and let them just do stuff. Because what's considered stupid or dumb today may be genius next year. And so we have to be a container for our young people just to take some risk, just to try some things differently and push the boundaries that you nor I would do at our age, because that's how we grow. [00:24:25] Speaker B: So ignorance can actually be helpful. [00:24:28] Speaker A: Absolutely. [00:24:28] Speaker B: Sometimes it's good to know what you don't know. You know that I wasn't going to have you on this podcast without having a little fun with you, especially given the fact that we're both from Detroit. So we're gonna play a little game. All right? It's called Very simple, this or that. You get two choices, and this is where the controversy happens. [00:24:50] Speaker A: Okay. [00:24:50] Speaker B: All right. Gonna start with this one. Spades or uno? [00:24:54] Speaker A: Spades. [00:24:55] Speaker B: You said that real fast. Okay. All right. You still play bid whist at all or no? No. Okay. Spades. All right, I got you. You don't renege, do you? [00:25:03] Speaker A: I can. [00:25:04] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:25:05] Speaker A: If I think I get over and win, I will. [00:25:09] Speaker B: Boomeranga Love Jones. [00:25:11] Speaker A: Oh, wow, That's a good one. I'll say. They probably equal. I mean, Love Jones was like, oh, that was sweet. But boomerang, Marcus, I mean, that was special. [00:25:22] Speaker B: So you taking boomerang in this for [00:25:24] Speaker A: the comedic value of it? Yeah. [00:25:26] Speaker B: Okay. Get out or sinners. [00:25:29] Speaker A: Sinners. [00:25:30] Speaker B: All right. Sugar or salt on grits? [00:25:35] Speaker A: I don't eat grits. [00:25:37] Speaker B: Time out. Okay, now we gotta stop this whole thing. You don't eat grits. [00:25:40] Speaker A: So when I was eating grits, I did both. Like, growing up, it was sugar, but then I matured to salt and pepper. [00:25:48] Speaker B: But now I love that you said that. Matured to salt and pepper. I want all the sugar grit eating folks to see that. Like, sugar on grits are for children. All right? It's about salt, pepper, cheese. [00:25:58] Speaker A: So when I was eating sugar on grits, I was also eating Froot Loops. [00:26:01] Speaker B: Okay. [00:26:02] Speaker A: Right. And then I grew up. So you just salt and pepper and. [00:26:06] Speaker B: I don't know, you also did it. You done left the grits by Now. [00:26:09] Speaker A: Oh, no, no, no. It's a starch thing. You know, I'm trying to do this diet thing. Cut back on starch and sweet seeds. [00:26:15] Speaker B: Oh, here we go. [00:26:15] Speaker A: There we go. [00:26:16] Speaker B: All right. Now I'm gonna make this a little bit more Detroit centric. [00:26:19] Speaker A: All right. [00:26:19] Speaker B: All right. Detroit Pizza. You know, our square style pizza. Or Detroit Coney's. [00:26:25] Speaker A: Coney Lafayette. Well, used to be Lafayette. I can't touch it right now. Oh. [00:26:29] Speaker B: Cause of the little issues. [00:26:30] Speaker A: The little issues, right. I mean, they had the best chili. It had. I know. I would say the grease. The chili had. No, grew up eating it because I grew up on the number streets, so it was right by Michigan Avenue. We used to ride our bikes to go get Coney's. [00:26:42] Speaker B: I tell New Yorkers all the time, who for some reason are under the impression that they have the trademark on Coney's. I'm like, nah, it's us. [00:26:49] Speaker A: I mean, respectfully, Coney Fuzz restaurants for them is a theme park. It's two different things, two different worlds. [00:26:55] Speaker B: They're not on our level. [00:26:56] Speaker A: That's right. Yeah. [00:26:57] Speaker B: I said it. Supremes are the Temptations. [00:26:59] Speaker A: Temptation. They can actually sing. [00:27:03] Speaker B: Dang. Or is that a shot? [00:27:05] Speaker A: No, it's not a shot. You think about the Temptations, like all those brothers, the range. I mean, it was amazing. Some of the songs I wish I could sing, it's the deep voice, the falsetto. I mean. Yeah. [00:27:17] Speaker B: Aretha Franklin or Diana Ross. [00:27:19] Speaker A: Aretha. [00:27:21] Speaker B: You're so definitive with these. You don't hem, you don't haul. You just immediately know what it is. Finally, the last question. And this is the most important. East side or west side? [00:27:34] Speaker A: West side, all day. [00:27:35] Speaker B: See, west side, all day. High five. [00:27:37] Speaker A: Look, man, I'm Southwest Detroit. On top of that, as a West side all day. [00:27:40] Speaker B: As a fellow Westsider, I want the East Siders to understand that our side matters more. [00:27:45] Speaker A: You know, it's funny. I can recall going downtown. Cause we were close enough to downtown. And every time Eastside guys who live close, they come down. There was always these skirmishes, right? I don't know if they were still around with the Be Light boys on the east side. [00:28:02] Speaker B: Oh, you going back? [00:28:03] Speaker A: You get out of there. Be like, man, get out of here with that foolishness. Yeah. No, I love me some Detroit. In fact, I think growing up, looking at Coleman Young on the news really informed how I see myself. I mean, elementary school, middle school. And this is why artists advocacy, how we see it on the screen, we hear that Coleman's going to be on television. So I would try to make sure I didn't miss the news because I knew he was going to cuss that night on tv. And the beautiful thing about it is he was always fighting for Detroiters. And at that time, Detroiter was approaching 70, 80% black. He was fighting for black folks in the midst of all the structural racism that he had to overcome in the midst of the state targeting Detroit. And that targeting still exists today. Like most of our high schools are closed because of the fight he took on in the 70s. And the reaction to that fight was realized when they closed schools and started doing charter schools to take the city's money. And even the fake bankruptcy of the city was about the control of the water. We were not bankrupt. And for me, that all informed me, watching that, idolizing what he would do, but then seeing the trajectory of what took place, that this movement is about a continuum. It is not about one individual. It's not about one moment. It's about building on the legacy and the victories of the past and learning from the failures and what we should have done things better from the past and bringing all that stuff full circle so we can educate our young, energetic talent that's coming up. Continue to pull from the wisdom of our elders. You and I, we're the continuity generation that connects our youth and our elders and bring all that stuff full circle to create what we call the naacp. [00:29:56] Speaker B: Yeah. And I mean, it all ties together because Colmy Young always. His authenticity was on display. So you knew from watching him that it is very possible that you can bring your full black self to politics and to leadership and you don't apologize for it. And don't apologize for it. [00:30:13] Speaker A: Because if you're black to the bone, you can't hide it. [00:30:17] Speaker B: You were right about that. Well, listen, President Johnson, thank you so much for joining me here. I really appreciate you appreciate all the work that NAACP is doing. And thank you again for a nomination. I mean, I know a lot of people always say this about, oh, you know, it's just an honor to be nominated. And people think that it's just, you know, you're just saying that. But really from this organization, it means so much to me to be nominated. I got two of them things already on my desk, so let's hoping to add another one. [00:30:45] Speaker A: I didn't do it. You did. Right. My job is to create a container so we can have people to look at content and then select among those who submitted the best of the group. You did that. And the beautiful thing about it is when the predominant culture tried to suffocate your voice, you didn't quit. You found other avenues, and here we are today. So congratulations on your nomination. [00:31:09] Speaker B: I'm from Detroit. You know, I wasn't gonna quit. [00:31:10] Speaker A: All right, let me fight real. [00:31:11] Speaker B: All right. Thank you. Thank you. That's it for this episode of Image Unscripted, an NAACP Image Awards production. Huge thanks to Derek Johnson for pulling up and keeping it real with me. If you enjoyed this conversation, share it with a friend. Subscribe and watch on YouTube. And if you're listening, set your alerts on your podcast platform so that you don't miss the next episode. I'll catch you next time. Until then, keep it black, keep it brilliant, keep it unscrewable. Script it.