Boss Talk with Bozoma Saint John, Tai Beauchamp and Shantel Jackson

[00:00:00] Speaker A: Olivia Pope. [00:00:01] Speaker B: Olivia Pope. [00:00:02] Speaker C: Olivia Pope. [00:00:04] Speaker B: This is the Image Unscripted podcast, presented by the NAACP and hosted by me, Jamel Hill. Image Unscripted features candid conversations with its brightest black voices, discussing pivotal life moments, giving them their flowers, and how they are advancing the community. Today I'm joined by three bosses, Bozeman St John and Ty Beauchamp and Chantel Jackson. We're talking about leadership, branding, and why representation still matters across boardrooms and media. Thank you, ladies, for joining me. I'm sorry, not ladies. Thank you, bosses, for joining me here on Image Scripted. Yeah, I know. Like, real quick. I was like, oh, no, we in it now. So I'm going to start off by asking you guys somewhat of an intrusive question. You all are in the public eye, so I'm assuming you're used to it. So when you felt like you were really making some money, tell me about the first big purchase that you made for yourself. [00:01:05] Speaker D: Who wants to go first? [00:01:05] Speaker A: I have my answer. Go ahead. [00:01:07] Speaker B: You have your answer? [00:01:07] Speaker A: Go ahead. [00:01:07] Speaker D: Yeah, I mean, so my first major investment wasn't real estate. It was actually art. So in 2008, I am proud to say, I purchased a Kehinde Wiley. So that was. That was in 08. [00:01:25] Speaker A: That's what we're talking about. [00:01:25] Speaker D: Yeah. So when he was starting. So it was, you know, I was interested in real estate, but, you know, there's a difference in a check of, like, five figures versus, you know what I mean? [00:01:35] Speaker A: Right. [00:01:36] Speaker D: And I'm happy that I did. So that's kicked off a real art collection for me. [00:01:41] Speaker C: Honestly, when I really started to make, like, my own funds like that through my business, I, I, I, I, I, I will. I won't say I went crazy, but I was like, you know what? Like, I want to spend this amount of money, this amount of money for my. My birthday, I want to do this. I want to go shopping, and nothing is the limit for me. And, I don't know, just something about that. Just being able to spend what I wanted, how I wanted to do it, who I wanted to do it with, dinners, the traveling. And it just made me feel good that I didn't have to ask anybody but myself for whatever I wanted to do that year. But I definitely want to buy some art. [00:02:29] Speaker D: Well, but I love the idea you [00:02:31] Speaker A: can buy, Definitely buy art. [00:02:32] Speaker D: So the investment and experience. [00:02:34] Speaker B: And you bought artwork. [00:02:36] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:02:36] Speaker B: As opposed to, like, something more traditional. What about you, Bozeman? [00:02:40] Speaker A: Girl, this is such a hard answer for me because I feel like [00:02:47] Speaker D: ever [00:02:47] Speaker A: since I started working, you know, I started buying things that were significant. You know, I think, contrary to popular belief, I actually don't go shopping that often. And so I wasn't. Are you sure? I'm positive. Ask anybody. They will tell you. But, like, you know, I didn't. I didn't buy jewelry. I didn't go shopping. Like, I didn't do any. Like, I. I bought a home before I was 30. I think I bought it, like, when I was 27, you know what I mean? At an apartment in New York City in Manhattan. [00:03:19] Speaker B: That's kind of. [00:03:21] Speaker A: So, like, I have always just, like, gone. And. And by the way, I wasn't making the money I'm making now. You know what I mean? But it still felt to me like I always wanted to buy something significant. And now I'm glad my real estate portfolio looks the way it does. [00:03:38] Speaker D: I love that. [00:03:39] Speaker B: Well, I mean, sometimes, especially as. And we don't celebrate ourselves enough. I remember the first time I went to the strip club with some real money. [00:03:48] Speaker A: Oh. [00:03:49] Speaker B: So look, you go to a strip club and you make, like, most fun experience I could ever have. I was like, I want to know what it's like to make it rain. Okay, I wanna do that. You know? And I was like, yeah, love that for you. Go ahead, support yourself through school. Cause I know you guys are all in college. This is great. [00:04:09] Speaker D: Now I'm nervous to ask where you were. [00:04:10] Speaker A: Right. Which city? [00:04:11] Speaker D: Which city was it? [00:04:13] Speaker B: Would say, let's see. No. And I wish it was Atlanta. I wish it was Atlanta. Although I did have. I. I've had a good time at some Atlanta strip clubs. Shout out to Onyx. But I think it was Stadium in D.C. oh, yeah. I think that's what it was like. That was. That was the one. [00:04:35] Speaker A: You know, I love a strip club connoisseur. [00:04:37] Speaker D: Well, I mean, because this. Because I'm sitting here like, I've never heard of stadium. It's amazing. [00:04:41] Speaker A: A connoisseur. This is the things you need to know about your friends. You see what I'm saying? [00:04:45] Speaker B: But I do think that the strip club, strangely enough, is one of the most empowering places a woman can go. [00:04:51] Speaker C: Thank you for saying that. You can actually have a good time in there. Eat great food. [00:04:56] Speaker B: Yes, the food is good. It's true. [00:04:58] Speaker A: That's for sure. [00:04:59] Speaker C: Listen to good music in there. Or it's. [00:05:04] Speaker A: It's. [00:05:04] Speaker C: It doesn't have to be what some people make it sometimes. And catch up with your friends. Catch up with whoever. Go on a date, meet people. [00:05:16] Speaker A: Wait, a date? Now that's where I was nodding and agreeing. [00:05:22] Speaker B: Hold up. [00:05:23] Speaker D: Date. [00:05:24] Speaker B: I was like, me and my husband have been to the strip club. [00:05:26] Speaker A: Yeah, but, like, when you were dating. [00:05:28] Speaker B: Yeah. We were not engaged when we went to. [00:05:30] Speaker A: Really? [00:05:31] Speaker B: Yes, we did. [00:05:31] Speaker A: But you were committed. [00:05:32] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. We were in a relationship. Yes, definitely. [00:05:34] Speaker A: I was thinking date, like, you know, like. [00:05:36] Speaker B: Oh, like, in lieu of going to Nobu. [00:05:39] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:05:43] Speaker B: I wouldn't say, you know, I'd replace that with that, but I. [00:05:45] Speaker C: Maybe not the first date. [00:05:46] Speaker D: A date. A date. [00:05:48] Speaker B: Correct. [00:05:48] Speaker A: She said five or six. [00:05:49] Speaker D: I have a question. So how early in the dating process would you go to the strip club? [00:05:55] Speaker C: You know what? I have. Let's just met my ex, and we were probably in the strip club, like, second date or something. [00:06:06] Speaker D: Oh, just. [00:06:07] Speaker C: We went shopping, and then, like, we went to eat, and then, like, the strip club was just on the agenda. [00:06:12] Speaker A: Was it was there? Yeah. Yeah. [00:06:13] Speaker D: And you were like, okay, we going. [00:06:14] Speaker B: I'm not mad at it. Yeah, I'm not mad at it at all. No. [00:06:17] Speaker A: And I'm. [00:06:17] Speaker B: I don't know if it's. [00:06:18] Speaker C: The thing of growing up in Miami is, like, strip clubs are culture. Culture. [00:06:24] Speaker A: It's like going to a lounge is [00:06:25] Speaker C: one of the things to do. [00:06:27] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:06:27] Speaker C: Especially if they have great food. Strip clubs have hookah now. It's just a vibe. [00:06:32] Speaker A: All right. [00:06:33] Speaker B: I've been the king of diamond a [00:06:34] Speaker D: few times, I think. I think at some point it sounds like we're going to have to have a group bosses date. [00:06:40] Speaker B: I'm sure the definition of success has changed for you all. So, like, how has that definition evolved? Bozami, you can kick. [00:06:46] Speaker A: Well, I mean, I think at the beginning of my career, it was titles, and then it became money, and now it's power, you know? So it's like, if I'm able to move things in the direction that I want to move them, if I can pick up the phone and make a phone call and impact something. Yeah. I feel that I'm successful now. [00:07:07] Speaker C: I feel like part of my success, or just thinking about me being successful is a lot of my accolades. Just to sit here and be like, you know, I'm a visionary. I'm an inventor. I hold 13 patents. A lot of people can't say that. And I really sit sometimes. And I know we can all be victims of this. Like, we don't give ourselves enough grace or enough credit sometimes, or we don't celebrate what we've already done. Because sometimes I'm. I'm sitting and I'm always, always like, okay, what's the next. I got to get to the next thing. I got. I got to get to the next thing. But what about what you've already done? It causes for celebration, like sit and bask in those things, so to say. Like, I have 13 patents. I'm just like, you know what? [00:08:04] Speaker B: That's. Yeah, we agree. A hand clap moment. Yeah. How about for you, Ty? [00:08:12] Speaker D: So now it would definitely be impact and purpose. I've had all of the titles. I've been reflecting on this a lot lately. Cause I turned 48 last week. There's been a lot of changes. Thank you. There's been a lot of changes in life, but I've been thinking about like one, I had a lot of early success. So I had big titles, big roles, big opportunities, big visibility very early in my life. And I think we were. I said this to you yesterday when I saw you on the street. And I find that where I sit right now, I reflect on those moments. And while that was great, it's. I'm driven differently. And honestly, my ambition has shifted. [00:08:51] Speaker B: How so? [00:08:54] Speaker D: You know, I remember, you know, in my earlier years being in certain rooms, it was like, you gotta be there, you gotta get there. I'm less, you know, inspired sometimes. And that's more because I think I enjoy where I am. And not because I don't wanna grow, not because I don't wanna expand, not because I don't wanna be more impactful. It's just a different way of moving. And I am proud and honored to say that on March 26, 2026, it will have been 20 years of being an entrepreneur. So when I think about my journey like there was no blueprint, there was no girl boss conversation. When I started my company in 26, I was getting asked, well, how are you gonna leave this big job at Seventeen magazine where you broke history and what are you gonna do? And so, and let me just say, entrepreneurship is not for the faint. And I also think that we conflate the idea of what entrepreneurship is versus being self employed. So there are a lot of, there are a lot of nuances. [00:09:54] Speaker B: That's a bar right there. [00:09:55] Speaker D: I mean, that's a bar. There are a lot of nuances. You can be self employed, you can be a contractor, but entrepreneurship is very different when you're thinking about, you know, PNLs, when you're thinking about expand, expansion, when you're thinking about profitability and scaling, when you have responsibility for other families. [00:10:10] Speaker A: Right? Yes, yes. [00:10:11] Speaker D: You know, and it, and it takes a lot. So I've had highs there have been times I, I looked at my bank account and was like, wow. And then there's been times I looked at the account and I'm like, lord, where you at? [00:10:21] Speaker A: Right, right. [00:10:22] Speaker D: Show up now. Where you at, Jesus? [00:10:26] Speaker C: I, I, I feel what she's saying because I'm at a point where just wanting to grow and scale my business and being set up in rooms with certain companies and basically having to pay to play. Yeah, paying to play really depletes your bank account. So that money has to come in from those sales when it's going out to pay to play with these companies. And like, I did my first sponsorship in New York fashion, we with Harlem Fashion Row and then we just did Miss Universe and. Yeah, thank you. And that income cheap. So it's like, it's scary. But you also want to push that envelope for yourself. Like, I gotta get to that next marker of where I see myself and my business as well. [00:11:16] Speaker B: Let's talk about your business a little deeper. Shoe gummy. Which is so funny how the most obvious ideas, you know, like this is such an obvious idea, you know, you love heels. I have a love hate relationship with heels. We all have on heels right now. And you have created a way for women to wear heels without it completely murdering our feet. So just discuss, like how you originated this concept and what drove you to turn it into a business. [00:11:51] Speaker C: Out of my own love obsession, passion for high heels, I created my business. My love and obsession for heels honestly created the woman that I am today. Like, I wouldn't have, I don't, I don't think I would have a business if I didn't love heels. But just wearing them day in, day out, wanting to do that, that's who I am. That's how I feel. The most confident and comfortable, but hating the pain associated with wearing them. Just in general, searching the market, not finding a solution and sitting and coming up with my own solution, basically. [00:12:38] Speaker B: And I think inventing one, let's be, let's be clear about that. Thank you. Yes. But nevertheless though, you coming up with this, you know, idea, I'm sure spun you in a direction you didn't expect. And then I saw something that I think you said on TikTok. You said I had to take a step back, to take a step forward. What was the step back? What was the step forward in escalating this business? [00:13:00] Speaker C: There was just a point in my life where just things were happening in business. And I, well, let's just go back some. There was a point in my life where, and I Think I was telling you this. I was really, you know, wanting to get into acting. Like, when I was younger, I really thought, like, being an actress was going to be my mark, and that's what I was doing. But sitting here now and just in general, like, I could not tell you that I was going to be an inventor, an entrepreneur, running a business like this. But it's just crazy how life just can take you in different avenues, different aspects of your life. And I told myself, when acting just wasn't going my way, like, you know what? I'm. Stop this. It's just not making me happy. And. And I have this product, I have this idea, and I'm gonna put all of my focus into that and see where it takes me. And this is basically where I'm in, where I am today. So I tell people, if you just put a little bit more focus into what you're doing, I guarantee you, you will see the fruits of your labor and some aspect, like, just a little bit more focus or a little bit more focus into that. [00:14:27] Speaker B: So, Bozeman, I feel like you were born in a cmo, a CEO. Like, you came out and you were a CEO. [00:14:37] Speaker A: Amen. [00:14:37] Speaker B: Yeah. This just seems like so much amen. [00:14:40] Speaker D: You're right. [00:14:41] Speaker B: A part of just the fabric of who you are. But what was it that drove you to the business world? [00:14:49] Speaker A: Well, I mean, I feel like I fell into it, honestly. You know, when I was in college, I was pre med. You know, I come from immigrant parents. [00:14:57] Speaker B: I'm gonna say I should have guessed. [00:14:59] Speaker A: Yeah, you should have guessed. I mean, honestly, I'm just. [00:15:00] Speaker B: Lawyers, right? [00:15:01] Speaker A: That's right. I have a sister who's a lawyer. You know what I mean? [00:15:03] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:15:04] Speaker A: So. But being pre med, you know, interesting. My. Even though I was born in the US My family traveled a lot when I was younger, and we finally immigrated back to the US when I was 12. And the way that survival worked for me at that age was that I needed to know pop culture, you know, Like, I needed to understand sports and fashion and music and food and politics and all of the things. And so what was a survival tactic also became, like just a habit, you know? And so I never lost that as I, you know, grew up. As I went to college, I was always very interested in what was happening in the arts. Lin Manuel Miranda and I went to the same college, and I would throw the after parties, you know, for his place. You know what I'm saying? [00:15:51] Speaker B: So your first business was Party Promoter? That's correct. [00:15:54] Speaker A: You know what I'm Saying, yes. I was also president of the Black Student Union. You know what I'm saying? Ujuma. Hello. Shout out to Ujuma. But I was always very attracted by pop culture. And so when I graduated and I took my mcat, I told my pet, yeah, of course. I mean, no, I went. [00:16:11] Speaker D: We were. [00:16:12] Speaker A: We was going, okay. And my. My dad obviously was very focused on me going to med school, but I want to take a break, you know? And I was like, all right, I'm going to take a year. Which, by the way, they were like, gaff. What? What are you talking about? And they wouldn't obviously fund my year. Of course not. [00:16:29] Speaker D: You like, broke year? [00:16:31] Speaker A: Yes, brokey. You know what I'm saying? [00:16:33] Speaker D: Broke year. [00:16:34] Speaker A: So I moved to New York City by myself. Like, that's bold. Crazy. It was insane. It is bold. I would not advise anyone to do that now. You know what I'm saying? But I knew that I loved pop culture, and I knew that I had something in it, you know? Like, it just seemed more interesting to me. And even though I could do the sciences and I could do the math and the MCAT was not that terrible for me, I didn't want to do that. And I got a temp job, which was my destiny moment with Spike Lee. And it was at his advertising agency that I found my lane in pop culture. Because I could connect the dots. You know, I'm like, okay, you wanna sell that soda right there? You gotta make sure this person is holding it, you know, like. And I could do that at 23. And so that is actually how I kind of fell into this. It was like I kept delaying, delaying, delaying, and your MCAT eventually expires, then you gotta take another one. And so that moment where I was like, ugh, either I go to med school now because I don't wanna take this test again, or I abandon it forever. [00:17:46] Speaker B: What was that conversation like with your parents? [00:17:48] Speaker A: Oh, awful. Are you kidding me? It was terrible. He called me every name in the book. [00:17:52] Speaker D: I'm like, but you're alive. [00:17:54] Speaker A: Yeah. Matter of fact, a few years ago, I was at Apple. I was global head of marketing, and I'd done the Apple keynote to introduce Apple music. And, you know, people were like, oh, my God, it's amazing. You know, I was like, getting all this love, all this, like, press and all this stuff. And my dad goes on Facebook and he's like, you know, in the comments section, somebody was saying, like, oh, how amazing I am. And, like, this black woman in tech, blah, blah, and he comments under it, she could have been a doctor, [00:18:23] Speaker B: like, you know what I'm saying? Like. [00:18:25] Speaker A: And I still have the screenshot of this comment because somebody sent it to me, like, is this your father? And so I had to call him and be like, dad, people can see you. He can see when you comment things like this. And the thing is, he wasn't even upset about it. He was just like, well, did I lie? [00:18:41] Speaker B: You know, And I was like, well, you could not lie. [00:18:44] Speaker A: But could you also just say congratulations? Would that hurt you so much? I'm sorry. This has now become a therapy session. [00:18:52] Speaker D: Bosses need therapy. They do. [00:18:54] Speaker A: You know, they absolutely do. Probably the most therapy, but I don't. But I feel like I kind of fell into this business and this industry, but because I have a practiced curiosity and a natural obsession. [00:19:09] Speaker B: Ooh, that's a good combination right there. One thing that all you ladies have in common is that you all, like, courageously bet on yourself. But can you think of a time where you didn't or where you didn't trust that instinct? And it's something, like, you still think about. [00:19:28] Speaker D: Well, I mean, I think Bo says something. I just think I want to call out, and I'll tie it into that. When you said, know what's in yourself, like, you knew what was in you. You knew that you loved culture. You knew that you had something. And that's really important because we all have something. Part of the challenge now is so many people are looking at the other people's something and wanting that something and not something. [00:19:49] Speaker A: Right? [00:19:49] Speaker B: Thinking they have something on their own something. [00:19:51] Speaker D: Own your own something. Right? [00:19:53] Speaker B: Because that sounds like a book to. [00:19:55] Speaker D: That's a really good thing, though. That's what it is. And when I think back to the times when I didn't feel, and I don't want to say confident, because I've always had an assuredness. That's one of my somethings. I've always been clear. I've always been a builder. I'm visionary. But I think when there were moments when I was in spaces and rooms and I knew that there was more or different for me because my something. So, you know, when I decided, I mean, I referenced, you know, a pivotal turning point in my life and professionally. When I left being the beauty director at Seventeen magazine. I got in a role when I was 25, and I left at 26. And people would always ask me why I left. And I loved beauty. I loved fashion. I loved media. I loved writing. I love creating all that stuff. It was great. What I didn't like is the soullessness of it. And I knew that the something inside of me had soul. So I would go into rooms and I'd be like, I'm shrinking my soul. I didn't have the language then, but that's what I felt because. And so, you know, those were the moments when I was younger when I felt that way. Now I can say I'm clear about my soul. And that's why also, you know, I don't feel the need to be everywhere in those spaces because sometimes the soul doesn't align. So I mean that, that's a, yeah, [00:21:16] Speaker B: that's a part two, you know, but, [00:21:18] Speaker D: but I'm telling y', all, I'm speaking now as a middle aged woman, right? So that's the other thing. And I'm not saying perimenopausal, I'm not saying, I'm not saying that. But, but I am perimenopausal. But my point is like I'm gonna call it what the heck it is. I am thousand percent perimenopausal. Tell everyone thousand percent. But, but I'm calling it what it is. We're middle. I said, I literally, I was like, we're middle aged, Bose. Like, how did this happen? We met in our 20s, in our late 20s, 20s. We're middle aged women now. So, you know, this is what it is and it changes everything. I think that understanding. [00:21:51] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, yeah. [00:21:53] Speaker C: I was at a, like years ago. I would always like have an idea about something or want to push something forward, but I would always tell myself, you know, it's not the right time. No, what if it doesn't work out? What if it fails now with having my business under me and just starting my business in general and having so many failures inside of that, it's just set me up to not even care about that aspect. Because if, and I tell this to people all the time, like you're worried about what if it doesn't work? What if it fails? What if it does work? If you don't push the envelope to at least do it, you're not gonna know. And a lot of my failures has, a lot of my failures have set me up to succeed and people don't think about that aspect of it. Like I'm working on a lot of things now and it's unclear if they're going to work, but I have to do it to see if it's going to work. Just in general. And a lot of people don't grasp that, that you have to step out There to see if it's going to work and if it does fail that it'll just set you up to succeed. A lot of multi billion dollar companies, multi million dollar companies have failed so many times, just in so many different aspects. And a lot of people don't know that, they don't talk about that part. A lot of times you just see the good of what the entrepreneur journey, where that is going. And being an entrepreneur is not easy. It's not for the faint of heart, it's always something to do. [00:23:48] Speaker D: It's only for the crazy is what I say. You gotta be crazy. You gotta be, I mean, you outta your mind. You gotta be nuts, [00:23:57] Speaker B: both of you. You also strike me as somebody who's like type like very clear and so. But were there times where you didn't follow your instinct and you sort of think about like man? [00:24:08] Speaker A: Yeah, plenty of times. But I think that has, that has only happened, I would say mostly in just my career, you know, and that thankfully only happened to me very early on before I learned my lesson, you know, which was that people, you know, mentors, people who are ahead of me in the career would recommend things, you know, would say, well, you know, you should go to this conference, you should meet with this person, you should take this job. What you should do is, you know, and I remember one very pivotal time when I was at PepsiCo and I was already in the track, you know, the way promotions work, you know, it's like you're with a class and once everybody does well, you get promoted to the next level. And it just didn't feel like that's what I should be doing. I was like, why am I with these, this is a group project, group project, not working out, you know what I mean? I was smarter than these people, not the group. Like why am I being left behind, you know what I mean? So in any case, I had a really trusted senior person at the company who I trusted very much. And they said, you know, you got to hang in there, you know, given another six months, you're going to get the next job. And I was like, I don't think so, I'm gonna leave, you know, and I quit and I went to a company called Ashley Stewart which is a women's kind of a big deal company. [00:25:35] Speaker B: Yes. [00:25:35] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, okay. But yeah, they still around? Yeah, yeah, but they cater to, I would say, women of color, you know, black women and it's plus size. And I was like, okay, look, I'm in fashion now, let's do it. And I Failed so miserably there, you know, that it was so terrible because I thought I was ready to head up marketing and I was not. You know, and so the lesson wasn't necessarily that I should have listened to the other person who said I should sit and wait. Because what happened is as I failed miserably and then, you know, was looking for another job, tail between my legs, and I hit up another senior person at PepsiCo. And I was like, hey, look, I have an idea. Actually, because I don't wanna go back into the latter. I have a different idea about how this could work again. Back to my pop culture readiness, I was like, you know, what really needs to happen is instead of brand managers of Pepsi and Diet and Mountain Dew and Awkwafina, contracting musicians and actors and studios on their own, they have no expertise. So there should be a center of excellence where there's somebody who understands all of these rooms and the brands come to that person and then that person goes out into the market, and I want that person to be me. And then we created the music entertainment division. [00:27:02] Speaker B: So you created your own job. [00:27:03] Speaker A: That's correct. But that couldn't have happened, which, by the way, changed my entire life, Right? It couldn't have happened if I had listened to the person who said, sit here, wait for another six months. You'll rise with the class. Because I had to leave. I had to go and get destroyed. You know what I'm saying? I had to go embarrass myself and then come back and be like, you know what? Okay, so that wasn't right. But this isn't right either. And what I think is I should actually, you know, and then create. And that's where I think a lot of, like, my now, you know, Yiddish word chutzpah, you know, comes from that. Like, I recognize the fact that in breaking a mold at a storied company like PepsiCo, where it is tradition in how people are promoted, and then created my own thing, oh, man, where can I do [00:27:59] Speaker B: ty? You created Morning Mindset, you know, and it's funny because like you said, you know what your thing is, you know what your special sauce, your special something is, and you were able to turn that into not just a business, but kind of a movement. So how. What was the creative inspiration behind you creating this? [00:28:20] Speaker D: You know, what's so interesting? So first and foremost, I answered a call. That's number one. I was not. There was no plan for Morning Mindset. It literally happened during the pandemic. I was looking for inspiration in sharing My own journey of how I was tapping into daily devotional and that experience. And I went live and people started coming and flocking. So I didn't even know it was going to be this type of movement. It's been incredible. But what I have realized from this experience, that communicating with people, whether or not it's on TV or in person or online or writing is my thing. And I've been inspired by it. I didn't expect for it to happen this way, but most of my work and my businesses over the course of the years have really been things that have come to me and I've responded. So what you said, Bose, like, you know, having the courage and taking the opportunity, seeing a pain point, like showing up in that moment and then taking action. But it's been incredible. [00:29:25] Speaker B: And again, it's one thing if you start a business, it's another thing if you start a community. Because I think that just lasts a lot longer. Probably like, wouldn't you say the foundation? Yes, you start a business. [00:29:39] Speaker D: And actually, even with brands, you know, because I've worked on consumer products and CPG as well, you know, now in this day and age, having community is the most important thing. That's the thing that's gonna sustain the, you know, the consumption and the growth because you have to have human connection. And in this world of technology, while, you know, I can appreciate AI for what it is, I don't want anybody driving in a driverless car. I'm not doing that. I ain't there yet. Don't send me no Waymo. I'm sorry. Do not send me Waymo. [00:30:09] Speaker A: We'll get there. [00:30:10] Speaker D: You think I'm nervous? [00:30:12] Speaker A: You're flying planes now. What do you think is powering the plane? [00:30:16] Speaker D: Okay. I didn't need you to be so technical. Okay, well, but back. But wait, wait. But real. But like, you just tripped. [00:30:25] Speaker A: I'm sorry. [00:30:25] Speaker D: I found that and I bought a plane concert. [00:30:27] Speaker A: I'll take it back. [00:30:28] Speaker D: You about to fly. But I think even with technology, which is a resource and an asset that we all need to employ and use, unless we connect, and I mean connect meaningfully, we're disrupting humanity. And so what I've also realized over the course of my journey and my work has helped me to do this, is I'm also a humanist. So in addition to being a visionary builder, I'm a humanist. I believe in humanity most of the time. [00:31:00] Speaker B: I'm glad you still believe. Now, Bozem, I have to say, when I. When it was announced that you were gonna be On Real Housewives, I was pretty stunned, okay? I was like, bozam. I, like, I was very stunned, you know, and it's definitely one of my guilty pleasure franchises, for sure. And I was like, ooh, imagine Bozeman throwing a drink on somebody. This is gonna be amazing. But I know that wouldn't necessarily be you. [00:31:24] Speaker D: But nevertheless, they were probably wishing, though they were open. [00:31:27] Speaker B: They were like, no, I knew if anybody could handle themselves, especially on this franchise, it would be you. But nevertheless, as you've seen that there is a pattern. There's a lot of housewives that have been on the show that start businesses that don't quite wind up popping off the way that they expect. But given your expertise and your knowledge and. And coming to this type of franchise, what was your game plan in terms of how you wanted to leverage your business interests with the brand of Real Housewives? [00:31:57] Speaker A: Well, I mean, look, the. The business of housewives is to be shady, right? I don't. I don't necessarily want to do. Look, I don't necessarily want to do all that, but I will say that, you know, like we were saying about entrepreneurship is not for the faint of heart. It's also not for the people who are not prepared. You know, it's like, you have to have some understanding of business in order to do it. Just because you're popular doesn't mean you can run a business. And so just because you're on TV doesn't mean that everybody's gonna buy your thing, because you probably don't know anything about supply chain. And so, for me, it's like, I wanted to make sure that whatever I was gonna do was going to end up being something that could be sustainable without the show, you know? And so the show is just the amplifier. It is a marketing tool. It is not necessarily the base of the business that I'm running, which is what I believe a lot of people do, which then ends up in failure, right? [00:32:53] Speaker D: Yeah. [00:32:53] Speaker B: Yeah, because they. You've definitely. And it's always interesting to me when they jump into businesses of which they have no knowledge of. It's like, girl, why are you making candles? Like you. I don't understand. What does that have to do with anyone? It just don't make sense. [00:33:09] Speaker A: I'm not mad at somebody white labeling a product. I'm like, if somebody's making a great tequila and you want to put your [00:33:14] Speaker B: name on it, that makes all the [00:33:15] Speaker A: sense in the world. Feel free. But you also need to understand the mechanics of running a business, running a marketing plan, you know, because like, just because your name's on it doesn't mean that everybody's gonna come and it's just gonna fly off the shelves. [00:33:28] Speaker D: And also knowing what you don't know, so then that way you can get the right people around, which you know is when. [00:33:34] Speaker C: When like I'm asked sometimes, like, what are, what's some business advice that you would give someone else? And I'm like, no matter what you're doing, even if you want to do three lip gloss and is done a million times over, research, what's, what's better? What will be different with yours? What is the different lane with this? Is it oils or is it this or is it different color palettes? Like research, research, research, Research will do you a lot of justice. And even if you have a big name going on to these shows and stuff, just because you're doing it on these shows doesn't mean it's going to work. [00:34:10] Speaker B: Yeah, like you don't know what the hell you're doing. [00:34:13] Speaker D: Yeah, yeah, yeah. [00:34:14] Speaker B: I just want to ask you all one final question before we get to a game. Because of course it's got to be a game. And guess what? It has pictures. This makes it even better of a game, right? [00:34:24] Speaker D: You know, let me get my glasses in that case. [00:34:28] Speaker B: You know what? Middle aged, [00:34:32] Speaker A: look at the readers out here. [00:34:33] Speaker D: Well, the thing is, I bought 35 hair on 35 just to have them everywhere. [00:34:39] Speaker B: Oh, okay, gotcha. [00:34:40] Speaker D: Have them everywhere. But let me tell you the problem. They're everywhere, but not ever on my person. Right? [00:34:45] Speaker B: So anyway, okay, you gotta pick a struggle. [00:34:50] Speaker A: Okay, [00:34:52] Speaker B: so listen, a lot of, I know a lot of people come to you guys for advice and Chantelle, you kind of hinted on it, but when you think about especially black women, I think there's still only the only racial ethnic group that owns more businesses than their male counterparts within their own race. But talking to so many black women who are in business as you all do, what are some of the common mistakes that you see a lot of black women make as they are trying to create or even scale a business? [00:35:25] Speaker C: You know what, And I don't want to feel a certain way by saying this, but just trying to get rich [00:35:32] Speaker D: quick, [00:35:34] Speaker C: if that makes sense. Like just, oh, you know what, this is popular. This is what's poppin. Like, I'm gonna just do this, slap my name on it and be done with it. But it really just shouldn't be that. Like, yes, we, we want to create something and you want to make money off of it. Like, of course, like Money does make things go around. It pays your bills, it makes people happy, it buys your clothes, it puts food in your mouth. [00:36:01] Speaker D: But [00:36:03] Speaker C: just trying to get rich quick, it might just be that you might make $5,000 last month and then the next month rolling in. It just doesn't work because you didn't really put anything into it. You just wanted to, how can we just do this for now? Yeah. And just as a community, like, we need to make better choices and put more things thought into whatever we're doing. [00:36:32] Speaker D: I have a lot, but I'll make this super quick. First and foremost, like I said, it was 2006 when I started my company. I think it's really important that you build a board of advisors even before you fully operationalize. If you don't become a C corp or an S corp, you want to build a board of advisors, you don't have to know everything. Partnership is a good thing. But partnership with sole partner, with soul. So I think one of the things that I believe sincerely is that we're all going to rise together. But you have to counterbalance skill sets as well as alignment. And then the other thing is that, and I say this to young women especially, there is nothing wrong with starting your business and going super hard while you have a full time role. The side hustle, it could be joint hustles. I mean, we work hard at every single thing. It might be a joint hustle, you might be pulling eight hours at your office and six hours on your business, but there is nothing wrong with that. I think, you know, especially in this insecure market, so many of us are thinking about, okay, how do we exit? And I get it. You know, as someone who hasn't spent a lot of time in corporate, I don't have that full appreciation. And trust me, there were times when I wanted to go back. Just clearly I was like, I know I was only here for four and a half years, but will you take me back, please? But you know, I think it's important that we don't, we don't have to divorce everything immediately in order to grow and move on to the next thing. So I encourage people, I know that you want to be an entrepreneur, I know you want to be independent. But there's nothing wrong with having the security and just going super hard and set a timeline. Say, I can do this for nine months, I can do this for a year. I can do this for 18 months and then go hard. [00:38:16] Speaker A: Oh, well, I mean, these ladies have said, I mean, really amazing things. And maybe the last thing that I'll add to it is that I believe that if you start a business, you need to have yourself in the business. Meaning that in the idea, in the passion, when you were saying you're obsessed with heels, it makes sense that you'd create a product that would enhance that experience. And I think sometimes to the point that was made about, you know, get rich quick, and therefore you're thinking, okay, this is popping, and let me just do that. It's like, it's marketing one that, like, you have to also put yourself in the thing that you're doing in order to make it feel unique. And the idea of entrepreneurship and selling something to anybody, regardless of it's a consumer package good. Or it's an idea, is that people have to believe you. [00:39:03] Speaker D: Yeah. [00:39:04] Speaker A: They have to believe what you're saying. And how can they do that if you don't believe it? If you're not obsessed with it, it will also help you in the moments where you're running out of money or you're frustrated by some failure that has come or some obstacle that is in your way. Your passion, because you are in the business, is going to drive it. And so making sure that whatever you're creating is actually a part of you and not just this idea that's floating out here that you grab and say, okay, let me push this out, is actually going to be the saving grace. [00:39:31] Speaker B: Yeah, it'd be something that you love. One of the worst, worst business mistakes I ever made was real estate, because. And I know it's very profitable for people, but it's not something I'm naturally interested in, and it's not something I can. Felt like I could. I'm a creator. Like, that's not really my thing. And I paid a price. I paid a price. So that's. That's a podcast for another day before we move on to the game, of course. Bozema. How could I forget? I should have definitely congratulated you for your NAACP nomination. [00:40:02] Speaker A: Thank you very much. [00:40:03] Speaker B: For your show, very first season. Look at you out here with the Image Award nomination. It's a fantastic show that you have with Jimmy Fallon, and you talk about putting yourself in it. Like, your. Your whole personality, your vibe is all in that show. So congratulations. [00:40:17] Speaker A: I really appreciate it. [00:40:18] Speaker B: All right, now onto the game. It is called this or that, but this is the bosses edition, of course, because I'm with three bosses, and I'mma flash these cards. Okay, Two people, y'. [00:40:28] Speaker A: All. [00:40:28] Speaker B: Pick one. Don't invent a third. Don't say what About. You gotta pick one or the other. It's that simple. Right? And you should be. [00:40:35] Speaker A: Uh huh. [00:40:36] Speaker B: The first one. [00:40:36] Speaker D: Two choices only. [00:40:37] Speaker B: Annalise Keaton or Olivia Pope. [00:40:40] Speaker A: Ooh. Olivia Pope. [00:40:41] Speaker B: Olivia Pope. Olivia Pope. [00:40:45] Speaker A: We love you, Viola. [00:40:46] Speaker D: Yes. Like, yes. [00:40:47] Speaker B: Yes. Olivia. We all love Viola. Even though. I mean, the thing is. [00:40:51] Speaker A: Look at that bag. Come on. Sorry. [00:40:54] Speaker B: Like, her fits. [00:40:55] Speaker A: Ooh. [00:40:55] Speaker B: On Scandal, she was coming through the attitude. But one thing about Analise, you could murder about 45 people, and she gonna find a way for you to get. Can't get you off. If she got to murder somebody herself to get you off, she gonna do it. The most evidence tampering lawyer ever. Okay, speaking of lawyers. But also against Olivia Pope. We got Jax from Reasonable Doubt. Or Olivia Pope. [00:41:19] Speaker A: I'm still with Olivia. [00:41:20] Speaker B: You still with Olivia? [00:41:21] Speaker D: Yeah, me too. [00:41:22] Speaker B: That is. [00:41:22] Speaker D: I think she's classic. [00:41:23] Speaker A: Yes, she is. [00:41:24] Speaker B: So I got on Scandal Late. It was. [00:41:26] Speaker C: I love that show, though. [00:41:27] Speaker B: What? Oh, yeah. Reasonable Doubt. [00:41:28] Speaker A: We love Reasonable Doubt. [00:41:30] Speaker B: I got on Scandal Late, and when I started watching that show, I honestly. I couldn't believe that people were rooting for her to be with Fitz. [00:41:37] Speaker A: I know. I just were here, and I was [00:41:40] Speaker B: like, y' all was rooting for her to be with this raggedy president. I gotta be. [00:41:44] Speaker A: We were here. Rooting. Y' all destroy a home and a marriage everywhere. [00:41:48] Speaker B: Go chill. [00:41:49] Speaker D: We were like, go, please. [00:41:51] Speaker A: Do it. And we were pissed at the wife. [00:41:53] Speaker B: Right? Mad at Melly. Melly ain't did nothing. [00:41:56] Speaker A: Melly ain't did nothing. [00:41:57] Speaker B: Minding her business. All right, another boss. We got Angela bassett, who's on 911, and Queen Latifah, who plays Robin McCall on Top Of. [00:42:06] Speaker A: That's tough. That's tough. [00:42:08] Speaker D: I'm going with Robyn Most because Queen Latifah's from Newark and I'm from Newark. [00:42:12] Speaker A: Oh, my God. [00:42:14] Speaker D: But I'm gonna tell you, I love. I love Angela Bassett. [00:42:17] Speaker A: Athena. No, I gotta go with Athena. [00:42:19] Speaker B: You're gonna go with Athena. Okay. [00:42:21] Speaker A: Strong name. Yeah. [00:42:22] Speaker B: Okay. [00:42:22] Speaker C: We'll go with Athena, too. [00:42:23] Speaker B: You gonna go with Athena, too. All right. Oh, Khadijah James from the Liberty. [00:42:29] Speaker A: Oh, my God. Yeah. Khadijah. [00:42:32] Speaker B: Khadijah. [00:42:32] Speaker D: Khadijah. [00:42:34] Speaker A: Tracy Alistro, we love you. [00:42:35] Speaker B: Yes. [00:42:35] Speaker D: Yeah. I'm saying, for Carrick's sake, I'm staying with Khadijah. [00:42:38] Speaker B: Khadijah, the owner and operator of Flavor magazine. Come on. [00:42:42] Speaker D: Flavor magazine. [00:42:43] Speaker B: She always heal as an intern, right? [00:42:46] Speaker C: No matter what happens, she was always cool. [00:42:48] Speaker B: She was always Queen Latifah. Like, one of the most talented people of all time. All right, a little bonus before we wrap up here. Would you all rather have a private jet or a private chef? [00:42:59] Speaker A: Oh, the jet. [00:43:01] Speaker C: A private jet. [00:43:02] Speaker A: I want to move. [00:43:02] Speaker B: No one takes the chef. [00:43:04] Speaker A: I like cooking. [00:43:05] Speaker B: Oh, yeah. [00:43:06] Speaker A: But I mean, let me. [00:43:07] Speaker D: I can have both. [00:43:08] Speaker C: Actually, [00:43:11] Speaker D: we need both. You know what I'm saying? Making the food for me that, well, her private jet. [00:43:17] Speaker C: Experience with having to go back to the airport and like your badass seeing those people. [00:43:24] Speaker B: We don't want to go anywhere in the air. [00:43:26] Speaker A: People have it every day. [00:43:27] Speaker C: Listen, I gotta get this shoe. This shoe gummy money up because I need a shoe. [00:43:31] Speaker A: Gummy jets. Okay, look, I love that. [00:43:34] Speaker B: I know I. Look, I've been able to fly one twice, and I was like, I. I never want to go back. It just. It made me feel poor, but it also made me feel very rich. It wasn't my private jet. I was just hatching a ride. Well, listen, bosses, thank you for joining me here on Image Unscripted. You guys are doing incredible, amazing things in the business world, fashion, pop culture, all the things, blending them together. And so I just thank you for being models and examples for pups like me who want to be y' all when I grew up. Even though I'm older than everybody here, but I still want to be y'. All. [00:44:09] Speaker D: Oh, wait, so I won't bring y' all into my middle ageness? [00:44:12] Speaker B: Okay. Oh, no, look, listen, I'm there on the. I mean, me and Perry. That's a podcast for another day, Another. [00:44:21] Speaker A: Another podcast. [00:44:22] Speaker B: Another podcast just on that alone. [00:44:23] Speaker A: But you look good. [00:44:24] Speaker B: Well, thank you. [00:44:25] Speaker A: We look good. [00:44:25] Speaker D: Yes. [00:44:26] Speaker B: We all look very good. Yes. Thank you. [00:44:29] Speaker C: I just hit the 40s club. [00:44:30] Speaker B: Oh, welcome, welcome. Bless your heart. That's it for this episode of Image Unscripted, an NAACP Image Awards production. Huge thanks to Chantel, Ty, and Bose for pulling up and keeping it real. If you enjoyed this conversation, share it with a friend, subscribe and watch on YouTube. And if you're listening, set your your alerts on your podcast platform so you don't miss the next episode. I'll catch you next time. Until then, keep it black, keep it brilliant, keep it unscripted.